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Post by Detroit Red Wings on Jun 3, 2020 20:55:17 GMT -5
I need attention.
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Post by XX - Former Canadiens - XX on Jun 3, 2020 22:50:14 GMT -5
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Post by Detroit Red Wings on Jun 4, 2020 5:25:16 GMT -5
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Post by Toronto Maple Leafs on Jun 5, 2020 9:30:49 GMT -5
Justin touched on the majority of points going on in my mind. The only thing I want to touch on is the 'black crime rate.' First of all, let's touch on the inceration levels of countries. out of 100k citizens, Japan jails 48 citizens, Netherlands 69, Norway 73, Greece 89, Spain 133, Canada 114, Australia 160, England 146. Obviously all are different, likely due to certain variables. US is 655 per 100k. over 4 times more than the next HIGHEST country (in terms of Western worlds). US is clearly jailing more people than other countries. So now let's look at the makeup of these crimes. According to a Time report in 2016, 25% of incerations were non-violent crimes (and 39% total could be released today, the other 14% makeup inmates that they argue 'did their time'). Now taking in that Blacks take up 40% of the prison population, while only 13% of the population. Plus, while only holding 9% of inmates in America, private prisons are prominent. And those who invest are very likely to sneak a few dollars to their favourite politician. It just seems like a clear system where rich White men profit off arresting poor blacks for petty shit like weed (while white kids get to do coke and molly every weekend during uni). Plus we can get into the systematic oppression that limits opportunity for them, thus leading to some to illegal opportunities to strive financially. There's more we can go into with other races, especially the Natives in Canada (like get them some fucking drinking water already), but atm, I think we should focus on the injustices for Blacks in America. It's pretty ignorant to believe that a country, whose foundation is based on the backs of blacks (among others now (thanks for the oil middle east!)), doesn't have racists roots. Note: this deviates from the original discussion of BLM. Please know this has little to do with it, and more because something triggered my brain and I wanted to discuss it as well.
I REALLY want to talk about prison in North America. This is my take: If you physically hurt another human being, you need to be locked up. You're an animal, and society needs to be sheltered from your ability to physically harm another person. If your crime does not involve physically harming another person (within reason), you should not be in prison. Saying their prison sentence is their debt to society, sitting in a jail cell does nothing to "pay" a debt to society. You should be working and doing something to actually benefit the society for your crime. That is how you pay a debt. This includes increased community service. Making something, growing something, literally anything other than sitting in a jail cell and folding prison clothes for 15 years. I believe that rehabilitation of a person comes with community involvement and understanding and learning what it is to be part of that community. I have a difficult time believing that violent offenders can be rehabilitated to not be violent offenders. Most violent offenders are repeat offenders, and when it comes to crimes against children, I have an insanely difficult time swallowing the rehabilitation argument. Not saying it can't be done, but I do not believe it is as promising as most hope that it is. Rehabilitating white collar criminals is different. You get them to work off what they did, and you have something beneficial going back to the community. Case in point, there was a popular fast-food chain contest that was rigged. The people who were busted for it had to pay restitution. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were stolen, and those people now pay back about 150 bucks a month, every month, to get that money back. That solves nothing. Most even said "I would definitely do it again" or "I wouldn't change a thing." Fuck that. Work off your god damn debt. If you're trusted to not physically harm someone, work that shit off. |
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Post by Buffalo Sabres on Jun 6, 2020 7:28:14 GMT -5
Justin touched on the majority of points going on in my mind. The only thing I want to touch on is the 'black crime rate.' First of all, let's touch on the inceration levels of countries. out of 100k citizens, Japan jails 48 citizens, Netherlands 69, Norway 73, Greece 89, Spain 133, Canada 114, Australia 160, England 146. Obviously all are different, likely due to certain variables. US is 655 per 100k. over 4 times more than the next HIGHEST country (in terms of Western worlds). US is clearly jailing more people than other countries. So now let's look at the makeup of these crimes. According to a Time report in 2016, 25% of incerations were non-violent crimes (and 39% total could be released today, the other 14% makeup inmates that they argue 'did their time'). Now taking in that Blacks take up 40% of the prison population, while only 13% of the population. Plus, while only holding 9% of inmates in America, private prisons are prominent. And those who invest are very likely to sneak a few dollars to their favourite politician. It just seems like a clear system where rich White men profit off arresting poor blacks for petty shit like weed (while white kids get to do coke and molly every weekend during uni). Plus we can get into the systematic oppression that limits opportunity for them, thus leading to some to illegal opportunities to strive financially. There's more we can go into with other races, especially the Natives in Canada (like get them some fucking drinking water already), but atm, I think we should focus on the injustices for Blacks in America. It's pretty ignorant to believe that a country, whose foundation is based on the backs of blacks (among others now (thanks for the oil middle east!)), doesn't have racists roots. Note: this deviates from the original discussion of BLM. Please know this has little to do with it, and more because something triggered my brain and I wanted to discuss it as well.
I REALLY want to talk about prison in North America. This is my take: If you physically hurt another human being, you need to be locked up. You're an animal, and society needs to be sheltered from your ability to physically harm another person. If your crime does not involve physically harming another person (within reason), you should not be in prison. Saying their prison sentence is their debt to society, sitting in a jail cell does nothing to "pay" a debt to society. You should be working and doing something to actually benefit the society for your crime. That is how you pay a debt. This includes increased community service. Making something, growing something, literally anything other than sitting in a jail cell and folding prison clothes for 15 years. I believe that rehabilitation of a person comes with community involvement and understanding and learning what it is to be part of that community. I have a difficult time believing that violent offenders can be rehabilitated to not be violent offenders. Most violent offenders are repeat offenders, and when it comes to crimes against children, I have an insanely difficult time swallowing the rehabilitation argument. Not saying it can't be done, but I do not believe it is as promising as most hope that it is. Rehabilitating white collar criminals is different. You get them to work off what they did, and you have something beneficial going back to the community. Case in point, there was a popular fast-food chain contest that was rigged. The people who were busted for it had to pay restitution. Hundreds of thousands of dollars were stolen, and those people now pay back about 150 bucks a month, every month, to get that money back. That solves nothing. Most even said "I would definitely do it again" or "I wouldn't change a thing." Fuck that. Work off your god damn debt. If you're trusted to not physically harm someone, work that shit off. Agreed completely. As much as this is a racism problem, I think it's also a power issue. Which likely goes hand and hand |
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Post by Ottawa Senators on Jun 6, 2020 10:49:35 GMT -5
I've been avoiding this thread cause I'm up to my eyeballs in all this outside of sim leagues, and sim leagues were always my little escape from the real world, but I've finally come around to reading this and I have a few comments. VotingThe solution is systemic, and therefore, to change the system, you must vote. But as anyone following the last 8-15 years of American politics knows, the system is severely broken. Gerrymandering has become insane. Republican gerrymandering has ensured that poor black communities have had their votes marginalized and the value and impact of those votes minimized for years. Check out some of district line maps, and you can't argue it's happening, and it's calculated. Not to mention, voting stations are disproportionally closed, moved, or under-staffed in black neighbourhoods and areas. They are becoming increasingly more difficult to access, making it harder and harder for black people to vote, and bring about change by civil means. The problem with the voting argument is that there is nobody good to vote for in America. The Democrats are not good guys either. Lesser of two evils is still evil, and Standing Rock and the Ferguson protests happened under Obama, a black president with a black attorney general. Obama's government further militarized the police, and deployed the military against peaceful protesters too, as well as ratifying and expanding the Patriot Act increasing the domestic spying powers of the US government. And don't get me started on his atrocious, war-crime filled foreign policy. Joe Biden's solution to police brutality is that they should shoot people in the legs instead of the heart. Like wtf. How does that help? Even Bernie said police should get raises as part of police reforms (to attract good ones, supposedly), and the average wage for a cop is already double the median income in the US. If you physically hurt another human being, you need to be locked up. You're an animal, and society needs to be sheltered from your ability to physically harm another person. Saying their prison sentence is their debt to society, sitting in a jail cell does nothing to "pay" a debt to society. You should be working and doing something to actually benefit the society for your crime. That is how you pay a debt. This includes increased community service. Making something, growing something, literally anything other than sitting in a jail cell and folding prison clothes for 15 years. I believe that rehabilitation of a person comes with community involvement and understanding and learning what it is to be part of that community. I have a difficult time believing that violent offenders can be rehabilitated to not be violent offenders. Most violent offenders are repeat offenders, and when it comes to crimes against children, I have an insanely difficult time swallowing the rehabilitation argument. Not saying it can't be done, but I do not believe it is as promising as most hope that it is. I can't fault anyone for having this opinion, but the numbers don't lie. Norway (the best example of a rehabilitation prison system) has the lowest recidivism rate for all crimes, including violent ones, while the US has the highest. The truth is that rehabilitation works, and every country that has switched to that model has seen major reductions in crime, particularly in repeat offenders. It may cost more per prisoner, but if you have fewer people committing crimes, it evens out in the end. Not to mention that this rehabillitation isn't just sitting through a few seminars or whatever. For most violent offenders its a multi-year process, where they are in prison unable to hurt anyone, but when they come out they're much less likely to continue to hurt people. A 5 year sentence for a violent offender in Norway is safer for their society than a 15 year sentence in the US would be, because 1/5 of violent offenders in Norway re-offend, while 4/5th in the US do. Also the whole "working off your debt to society" thing is very problematic. The 13th amendment abolished slavery "except as a punishment for a crime." Companies like Walmart, Target, Victoria's Secret, McDonald's, Microsoft, Honda, etc have all used prison labour, many who don't pay them at all (effectively making it slave labour). Not only is this absolutely abhorrent on its own, but it also screws up the economy, because why pay a unionized worker $20 an hour when you can pay prisoner $2 an hour to do the same job (and you don't have to worry about keeping a safe workplace for them either)? |
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Post by XX - Former Canadiens - XX on Jun 6, 2020 11:59:25 GMT -5
Ottawa Senators Ya there’s a prison somewhere in the states that makes hand scrapped hardwood. I can only imagine how much money their making off the prisoners doing all the work
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Post by Toronto Maple Leafs on Jun 6, 2020 12:07:16 GMT -5
Ottawa Senators Ya there’s a prison somewhere in the states that makes hand scrapped hardwood. I can only imagine how much money their making off the prisoners doing all the work Hopefully enough to pay for the food and shelter costs that are provided to host that prisoner? |
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Post by XX - Former Canadiens - XX on Jun 6, 2020 12:17:46 GMT -5
Ottawa Senators Ya there’s a prison somewhere in the states that makes hand scrapped hardwood. I can only imagine how much money their making off the prisoners doing all the work Hopefully enough to pay for the food and shelter costs that are provided to host that prisoner? I’m not sure I just know one of my buddies went to the prison to see how it was all made etc. It’s part of their rehab so not sure if the prison is making any money off of them or just the hardwood company |
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Apr 12, 2023 22:46:55 GMT -5